I drove my first diesel

"marshknute" (marshknute) 07/27/2018 at 19:01 • Filed to: None

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It sucked. Europe can keep their stinkin’ diesels .

I rented an XC60 while I was in Italy . No idea which diesel engine (there’s apparently three versions : 150, 190, and 235 hp ).

Honestly, i t’s like driving a dormant volcano; 4000 rpms of absolutely nothing , and then ALL THE POWER AT ONCE, and then you’re out of revs and have to upshift .

The automatic was geared for fuel economy , so naturally, it avoided the brief powerband like the plague. And the gears weren’t short enough to stay in the powerband when I did floor it, so the car was constantly lagging and lurching.

It was legitimately dangerous to drive, because it WOULD NOT FUCKING ACCELERATE when pulling out of a junction. I almost got rear-ended twice because the smoggy little fucker wouldn’t rev.

At least an underpowered gasoline engine has some enthusiasm while revving. My Miata had just 128hp , and my mom’s Prius had a measly 110 hp, and yet both felt leagues faster than this shitty Volvo.

CompactLuxuryFan > marshknute 07/27/2018 at 19:05

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Not an incorrect take. However, common people legitimately don’t mind the lack of go (especially in SUVs) and love the economy, and the diesels that enthusiasts actually like are way better.

jimz > marshknute 07/27/2018 at 19:08

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I’m puttering around this weekend in an Everest with the 2.2 turbodiesel, and it’s perfectly peppy. Maybe the way Volvo calibrated that one just sucks.

edit: although I’ve noticed that most modern diesels will “Soft start;” in an effort to prevent creating a lot of soot on acceleration, they’ll slowly ramp up the fuel when you step on the accelerator until the turbo has the chance to spool up and start providing boost. 

Rico > marshknute 07/27/2018 at 19:09

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Damn  I always thought diesels were loved for their loads of torque. 

jimz > Rico 07/27/2018 at 19:14

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that’s because diesels have been turbocharged since forever.  turbocharging is the key; a non-turbo diesel is weak sauce.  

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > marshknute 07/27/2018 at 19:16

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It’s because Volvo’s are dull to drive, and most diesels in cars a geared for economy. Diesels aren’t really exciting if they aren’t above 5 liters.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > marshknute 07/27/2018 at 19:17

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You suck and your opinion sucks. Diesel is awesome for a car you just need to get you around and particularly for manual cars. Since so many cars in Europe are manuals, it’s just better.

Something was probably wrong with that car because diesels have all the torques down low, more than even a modern turbo gasoline car (which feel closer to diesel than gasoline).

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Rico 07/27/2018 at 19:21

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They are. Manuals cars with diesel engines are so much easier to drive that I’ve seen many women (no offense, but every time I’ve heard someone tripping about wanting a diesel, it was a woman) in Europe insist on a diesel when picking up a rental car... It’s hard to stall a diesel car and they take off from a stop  better than comparable gasoline cars.

bob and john > marshknute 07/27/2018 at 19:29

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huh? diesels drop all the torques low....either something was borked, or you left the hand brake on....

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 07/27/2018 at 19:53

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Damn you now I miss my TDI 6 MT even more.

*shakes angry fist at VW*

marshknute > bob and john 07/27/2018 at 19:54

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That’s what everyone always told me, and I was expecting low end torque, but it was just not true with this particular engine. Completely gutless, with no torque or horsepower until I got past 4000 rpm.

marshknute > Rico 07/27/2018 at 19:55

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That’s exactly what I was expecting.  Everyone always says diesels make great low-end torque.  But this engine had neither horsepower nor torque below 4000 rpm.  

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > marshknute 07/27/2018 at 20:42

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I drove a diesel X5 today. Looooovvvvvveeeedddd it. More than any car ever.

So...don’t diss diesels, just the Volvo. 

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > marshknute 07/27/2018 at 21:27

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my old galant was a 2 litre turbodiesel...it was slow.. but it pulled

damn thing pretty much was a tank..a comfy tank...took a little while to get going but pretty much unstoppable once it is

dunno how to put it... it was a reassuring car...it did exactly what you told it too via pedal regardless of wether your on a hill or towing a hill up a hill

exciting it was not tho

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > marshknute 07/27/2018 at 21:40

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One anecdote does not make a fact. Even our little diesel is like getting kidney punched when you hit  the throttle. Plus it does 40mpg. 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > marshknute 07/27/2018 at 21:40

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Don’t judge all diesels on one in a boring SUV. Even a stock TDI has all the torque at 1800rpm, and the boost just gets better from there 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 07/27/2018 at 21:43

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This is true. It blue my mind that you could just lift off the clutch with no throttle on my bro in laws TDI. No feathering the clutch either just lift it up and the car will go. 

Rico > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 07/27/2018 at 22:34

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That’s cool I didn’t know that they were harder to stall. TIL!

jimz > marshknute 07/27/2018 at 22:46

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SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > marshknute 07/27/2018 at 22:49

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I guessing that your experience had more to do with gearbox calibration than the capability of the diesel engine. Though there are also a few small diesel engines out there that are not low down torque monsters with long flat torque curves...and it’s also possible  that you got one of them in conjunction with that dud gearbox.

fintail > marshknute 07/27/2018 at 22:58

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I drive a heavy AWD E-class with a little 4 cyl diesel, and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

I wonder if something was wrong with the car.

wafflesnfalafel > jimz 07/27/2018 at 22:59

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yep - GM 6.2, approximately 27.6 hp

TheMysticWizard > marshknute 07/27/2018 at 23:49

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Come drive one of my diesels if you want a real taste of what you're missing. Sounds like you didn't really get to experience what it's all about. The 4 cylinder has gobs of torque from about 1800 rpms and the v6 might be even earlier. Fun to drive and efficient to boot. I wouldn't have it any other way. Drop it in sport and enjoy or leave it in drive and get 45 mpg. Best of all worlds. 

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > marshknute 07/28/2018 at 00:15

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I rented a diesel Opel Corsa in Norway. It was also quite shit. At least it was a manual though and since speeds are in km, it was fun to me. I was like oh man I'm going 60 so quickly and then I realized how damn slow that was. Low speed limits in Norway and people actually followed laws there so slow car was perfect. It was kind of torquey but the short gears were hilarious to me. Much Rev limiter bouncing since I'm used to shifting at a Minimum of 6k in the Miata and that thing topped out below 5k. It wasn't a terrible car but it made me question diesels too. I think it's just bottom of the barrel rental spec cars though. I'm sure a nice turbo diesel golf would be way more fun. 

Bryan > marshknute 07/28/2018 at 01:55

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All I can say is that never been my experience with diesels .  The VWs BMWs Mercs and Fords that were diesels rocked.  Not sure what was wrong, oh wait a minute you said Volvo.  Probably some old Saab engineers hired had something to do with it.  

pip bip - choose Corrour > marshknute 07/28/2018 at 06:09

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could’ve been worse.

NOT YOUR DADS DIESEL.. > marshknute 07/28/2018 at 07:08

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Lol, you drove the wrong diesel vehicle! I have bmw 535d its a beast of a car.. 255hp 418 fpt.. its sick with power.  I know they lie on the spec sheet on this car because its 10 times stronger then my E60 M5 .. 

JIBM > Rico 07/28/2018 at 07:23

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And that’s the reason why they are loved, torque , I have a Jetta TDI 2006 manual meticulously well maintained in like New condition and driving Uphill or downhill is the same with that car I also drive a Prius and honestly no way to compare the Jetta TDI is better in everything long trips, taking off, torque, it's fats,    mpg, I get around 45 plus at the city and around I think 58 at the freeway I drove that car 528 miles with less than 3/4 of the t ank I think easy get 600 plus miles in a full t ank

DtotheJames > marshknute 07/28/2018 at 11:06

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Maybe you should drive a second diesel, and then a third, and a fourth, and so on, before you sit down and write a whiney blog about how they suck. I’ve driven plenty of anemic gasoline engines with economy-focused transmissions, but I don’t think ICEs are terrible overall. Maybe do some actual learning, figure out which engine you dro ve, so you know what to expect and why any single experience might not be representative of them all.

I’ve got one, MB 3.0 turbo V6. It’s fantastic. It accelerates effortlessly in all conditions and grades. Plus, my 5600 lb SUV gets similar overall fuel economy (24 mpg) as my 2.0 turbo I4 sedan (3700 lbs).

MultiplaOrgasms > marshknute 07/28/2018 at 12:40

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Interesting. I remember Jeremy Clarkson postulating a similar stance on Top Gear when he drove the 2.7 D S-Type around the Nürburgring. “nothing, then everything and then nothing again”.

Given that I have so far driven just about any type of diesel engine from a 1993 Mercedes 250D to a 620hp Scania V8 and most things inbetween I’d say your opinion is an opinion, n othing more.

What I did notice in doing so   is that Diesels in general   seem to dislike torque converter automatics. Paired with a manual they feel immensely more powerful than they actually are, at least when turbo . And contrary to what you just said, the power delivery of diesel engines is generally the same as a gasoline engine, except over a far smaller rev range.

DipodomysDeserti > marshknute 07/28/2018 at 13:25

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My first and only diesel was a 335d. 425 lb-ft of torque at 1,750 RPM. That puppy had a lot of git up from down low.

marshknute > MultiplaOrgasms 07/28/2018 at 14:42

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Yeah, I kept thinking about that Clarkson segment at the time. I was just so flabbergasted that there was ZERO low-end torque (or horsepower) in a type of engine that everyone champions for having tons of low end torque.  And it’s a modern turbo diesel, too, so I have no idea what was wrong with the engine I got. 

Cé hé sin > marshknute 07/28/2018 at 19:05

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That’s interesting. I’ve driven one manual diesel (a Focus), one DCT (another Focus) , several automated manuals and a couple of torque converter automatics.

The manual one had a notably narrow power band, with little below 2,000 rpm and nothing extra above about 4,000 but I didn’t find that to be much of an issue as that’s the kind of band I would use in normal driving anyway. You just use the wave of torque you get and then change up or down. It’s just the way diesels are. Don’t forget that large trucks typically have 12 gears (some more) for this reason.

The various automatics tended to operate in the same band but as they did their own thing gearwise it didn’t really matter. I just left them at it.

JIBM > marshknute 07/28/2018 at 19:06

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Sorry that sounds incredible for me to get nor torque neither horsepower below 4000 rpm I have a Jetta TDI which I love and I keep it well maintained and I usually change the gear between 1500 to 2000 RPM I don’t to go up to 3000 RPM to get horsepower when I go to 3000 RPM is when I need to do a really fast take off  the car you drove maybe had no maintenance or definitely had something wrong.

duurtlang > marshknute 07/30/2018 at 03:36

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You had an overweight softly sprung mommy-van with (likely) 150 hp and an automatic geared for economy. I don’t really know what you expected, really?

However, this Volvo is nowhere near “It was legitimately dangerous to drive” due to a lack of acceleration , not even close. It’s still faster than most in Italy. So either there was something wrong with the car or you’re so used to overpowered cars you forgot how to drive a more mundanely powered one.

marshknute > duurtlang 07/30/2018 at 09:39

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I expected torque.

Everyone on Jalopnik raves about the low end torque Diesel engines make. Yet, I’ve ridden horses with more torque than this Volvo.

Unless torque means something different in Europe . I’ve always understood torque as pulling power, or in practice, a car’s ability to pick up speed without downshifting. My 330xi had torque. My dad’s 5.7L Tundra has torque. My 6.2L Corvette has torque. This Volvo had nothing below 4000 RPM. It felt slower than my Mom’s 110hp Prius.

Anything slower than a 2007 Prius is legitimately dangerous to drive. Especially considering how erratic the power band was. It’s one thing to be linearly slow, but another completely to leave the driver guessing as to when the power will come on.

A slow car can be driven intelligently and safely , but a slow car with an unpredictable power delivery is dangerous.

duurtlang > marshknute 07/30/2018 at 10:27

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The engine power band is supposed to be like this (the dotted lines), assuming it was a D4:

So maximum torque between 1500 and 3000-ish rpm, peak hp around 4000 rpm. Google tells me 400 NM is 300 lbs ft, which I think is quite considerable for a 2.0L engine with <200 hp.

I’m assuming you had the 190hp D4 and not the 150 hp D3, as the D3 wasn’t available with an automatic. At least not in my market.

The D4 is a twin turbo engine. Those twin turbo engines tend to be designed for smooth/flat delivery, which is why your description surprised me. I'm not doubting your experience though. No CEL on or other shenanigans? It was a rental after all.

Source: https://en.bsr.se/tuning-kits/t/3167/volvo-v40-ii-d4-190hp-2015-2018-d-4204-t14

Party-vi > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 07/30/2018 at 10:47

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Hey now.

marshknute > duurtlang 07/30/2018 at 12:28

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No check engine light, but it was displaying the message, “time for regular maintenance.”

Someone else in this thread mentioned the following, which may explain the complete lack of power I had off the line:

“... most modern diesels will “s oft start;” in an effort to prevent creating a lot of soot on acceleration, they’ll slowly ramp up the fuel when you step on the accelerator until the turbo has the chance to spool up and start providing boost.”

No idea if that  is a ccurate or not, that does pretty accurately describe my experience pulling out of junctions into traffic; a solid 2+ seconds of minimal acceleration before a sudden burst of torque that chirped the wheels as I joined the road and straightened the wheel.

It’s possible my outlook is skewed by the power/torque from my Corvette, but I distinctly remember both my NA Miata and my mom’s Prius feeling noticeably faster and peppier.  At the very least, their power delivery was consistent.